Hello, everybody. I'm a new member here, and I've been itching to tell someone about my pet theory:

The Joker is Satan.

Think about it. He comes out of nowhere with no past, is completely unempathetic and sinister, believes in breaking rules, corrupts Harvey Dent and seems to be fifty steps ahead of everyone. This sounds an awful lot to me like Satan, who rebelled against God, is a master of tempation, has omniscience, and seems to have devoted his existence to causing suffering.

What do you all think of this idea? Sorry if it's been discussed before...

According to the Christian bible:

Satan didn't come "out of nowhere with no past." God created him. "Satan" is one of many names God gave his "most beautiful" angel Lucifer after he "betrayed" God by daring to question his methods and authority, etc.

Satan's actions could be questionable along with his motives, but they hardly prove him to be unempathetic or sinister. Other than killing Job's family (which God specifically gave him permission to do), I can't think of anything truly sinister that he did in the book.

He does not believe in "breaking the rules", because he can't. He must always obey The Father even when they are opposed. Doesn't make sense? I know. But, that's how it is throughout the tale. He never broke a rule.

He MAY have corrupted people and been fifty steps ahead of everyone. Strangely though, TDK's Joker doesn't fit this description. Joker is an unempathetic, cold-blooded, psychopathic mass murderer. But, he really had no plan to speak of. Things unfolded the way he figured they would because, I think, he touched on a dark truth that most of us never wanted to admit to ourselves before. But, he wasn't completely level-headed and didn't really set out to corrupt people. He believed that everyone was already corrupt and that there was nothing he or anyone could do about it. Satan on the other hand apparently felt good people could actually become something they weren't before if their connection to a higher power than themselves (God) is severed even for a moment. Both want to reveal perceived holes in plans and authority. But one sees the corruption as makeable while the other sees it as already there.

Rebelled against God? Check. Master of temptation? Eh. I guess. He failed quite a bit in the story for him to be a "Master". But, ok, he tempts people pretty well. Kinda like scratch tickets and cigarettes.

Omniscient? Absolutely not. Neither Satan not Joker have omniscience. Crazy talk.

Causing suffering. Yeah, Joker loves that stuff. Satan's goal was never specifically for people to suffer. He just wanted to prove God wrong by beating him at his own game.

If anything, the God character has more in common with Joker than Satan does. But perhaps ill leave that for another time.

Huh, I didn't know a lot of that stuff. Thank you for the corrections. Yeah, I guess the theory is pretty much sunk now...

I think also that when you start deconstructing characters in a way so as to compare them with other literary (or historical) figures you lose some of the fun of it. We have no way of knowing if the author/creator of Joker (or any other character) was using such a direct influence when they created said character. I've heard these types of comparisons ie. Odin/Gandalf/Christ and it just takes some of the fun out of it for me ;)

I think also that when you start deconstructing characters in a way so as to compare them with other literary (or historical) figures you lose some of the fun of it. We have no way of knowing if the author/creator of Joker (or any other character) was using such a direct influence when they created said character. I've heard these types of comparisons ie. Odin/Gandalf/Christ and it just takes some of the fun out of it for me ;)

Yeah, I get that. It was just a silly "what-if" anyway. :rolleyes:

I think I understand what you're saying here. But, whereas Satan and God are two opposites, The Batman and The Joker are more like two halves to a whole. As Joker said in TDK, "You complete me." "I think you and I are destined to do this forever..." In a way, The Joker IS Batman, if you have a good imagination. If there was a comic that told us Batman was actually crazy and all the villains were just his different personalities, I wouldn't be too surprised.

It's interesting to me how the villains get divided up to matching superheroes. Batman is fighting insanity, so he gets the crazy Arkham patients. So in a way, your whole "Devil" theory isn't TOO far off. Is Joker the metaphorical devil? No. But, in a way, The Joker is like the Devil because he will always be there, causing evil and pain. And Batman, like God, will never really be able to cast him out of Gotham (or kill him, whatever). They need each other, and without the other I'm not sure Batman would really be Batman.

I don't know if this helps at all, just thought I'd throw something in there for you all (and, I know this is an old thread, I was just looking through them and thought I'd add my two cents :P).

According to the Christian bible:

Satan didn't come "out of nowhere with no past." God created him. "Satan" is one of many names God gave his "most beautiful" angel Lucifer after he "betrayed" God by daring to question his methods and authority, etc.

Satan's actions could be questionable along with his motives, but they hardly prove him to be unempathetic or sinister. Other than killing Job's family teenforum (http://www.teenbar.net/showthread.php?613-teen-bat)(which God specifically gave him permission to do), I can't think of anything truly sinister that he did in the book.

He does not believe in "breaking the rules", because he can't. He must always obey The Father even when they are opposed. Doesn't make sense? I know. But, that's how it is throughout the tale. He never broke a rule.

He MAY have corrupted people and been fifty steps ahead of everyone. Strangely though, TDK's Joker doesn't fit this description. Joker is an unempathetic, cold-blooded, psychopathic mass murderer. But, he really had no plan to speak of. Things unfolded the way he figured they would because, I think, he touched on a dark truth that most of us never wanted to admit to ourselves before. But, he wasn't completely level-headed and didn't really set out to corrupt people. He believed that everyone was already corrupt and that there was nothing he or anyone could do about it. Satan on the other hand apparently felt good people could actually become something they weren't before if their connection to a higher power than themselves (God) is severed even for a moment. Both want to reveal perceived holes in plans and authority. But one sees the corruption as makeable while the other sees it as already there.

Rebelled against God? Check. Master of temptation? Eh. I guess. He failed quite a bit in the story for him to be a "Master". But, ok, he tempts people pretty well. Kinda like scratch tickets and cigarettes.

Omniscient? Absolutely not. Neither Satan not Joker have omniscience. Crazy talk.

Causing suffering. Yeah, Joker loves that stuff. Satan's goal was never specifically for people to suffer. He just wanted to prove God wrong by beating him at his own game.

If anything, the God character has more in common with Joker than Satan does. But perhaps ill leave that for another time.

Hi. Did you mean god has more in common with the joker because deep in himself the joker is conviced what he does to others is good ?